Great shows you may have missed...

[Cheza]

Are there any shows you LOVE that are sort of off the beaten path due to the channel they air on or the genre of storytelling they employ? Use this thread to discuss those shows and introduce your fellow .org members to what they've been missing!

[Cheza]

Okay, I guess I'm going to have to start in. Many of you know that I am an anime fan. We didn't have a thread to discuss it...so I thought I'd use this thread to introduce you to some of the shows I enjoy, but other people could use it to introduce the little gems they've found in other mediums.

I've already converted one to the "Cowboy Bebop" camp. Bebop is stylistic, well written, with a great score. If you have Netflix, I suggest putting it on your list at some point and giving it a try. I really think you'd like it.

[chicagojoe]

I just finished watching disc one of Cowboy Bebop for the second time and I’m waiting for disc two to arrive in the mail. It’s really a great series. It’s well written, and has a great score as Cheza has mentioned. It’s also totally original and very entertaining. I’m hooked.

Here are some other TV shows I like to watch:
Monk which airs on USA on Friday nights
The Closer which airs on TNT on Monday nights. I just started watching this season. I missed out on the two previous seasons. Darn.
Medium which airs Wednesday nights on NBC

[Cheza]

I also enjoy Monk. Tony Shaloub does some genius work in that.

There are several other anime series I enjoy. Anime, I understand, is not everyone's cup of tea, but you'll have to forgive me - as I am a bit of a nerd/geek when it comes to the stuff.

Cowboy Bebop, allegedly, will return to the Adult Swim line-up in September. The year is 2071 and most people have migrated to other locations in the solar system. The story centers around a group of bounty hunters aboard the spaceship known as the Bebop. Key players are Spike Spiegel, Faye Valentine, Jet Black, Ein (the dog), and Edward Wong Hau Pepulu Tivrusky IV...oh, and the villain - Vicious...and the mysterious lady from Spike's past - Julia. One of the characters flies a ship called The Hammerhead. So you know you want to watch!

The crew of the Bebop (from left): Spike Spiegel, Jet Black, Ed, Faye, and Ein.

Other anime series I enjoy include Full Metal Alchemist, Trinity Blood, Wolf's Rain (which includes the character of Cheza), Big O (a mecha Batman of sorts), Samurai Champloo, and Blood Plus. From time to time I also watch InuYasha.

[Cheza]

Full Metal Alchemist tells the story of the Elric brothers. Alchemists who suffer great losses after trying to perform a human transmutation in the early 1900s (to bring a loved one back from the dead) as youngsters.

The older brother, Edward, becomes a State Alchemist - known as The Full Metal Alchemist due to his automail limbs. His younger brother, Alphonse, ... well, I'm not going to tell you what happened to Alphonse. You'll just have to watch. I don't want to give too much away about the story.

Their story eventually includes a battle with a group of homunculi - beings created from failed human transmutations - that are the seven deadly sins personified. At the core of the story is the search for "The Philosopher's Stone" (I know, I think of Harry Potter every time I say that.), which amplifies alchemic power. They believe that is the only way they will ever regain their normal bodies.

Full Metal Alchemist (a.k.a. FMA) is currently running weeknights in the Adult Swim line-up. It is a longer anime series with 40-50 episodes followed by a movie (DON'T WATCH THE MOVIE FIRST), whereas several only have 26 episodes or so involved, such as Bebop.

Alphonse & Edward reflect on happier days with their friend Winry Rockbell and her puppy.

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[Cheza]

Trinity Blood is a futuristic thriller. Vampires (aka Methuselah as they prefer to be called) are attacking people and even rule over some cities. The Vatican in Rome has a special division known as AX, which deals with the vampire problems.

The first member of AX you meet (who is the main male character) is the traveling priest Abel Nightroad. Abel is not what he appears. He appears to be mild mannered, humble, soft-spoken, and perhaps even a bit clumsy. When a vampire attacks the crew of the airship he is on, Abel springs into action. He is a Krusnik...in other words a vampire who feeds on the blood of vampires. Later on you meet the other members of the AX team and the young nun Esther, who also plays a key role in the story.

Father Abel Nightroad (left, with silver hair) and the other members of the AX team. The blonde woman in red is Cardinal Caterina, the woman behind the AX division of the Vatican. The red haired nun at the bottom is Sister Esther.

My kind of anime is not for the kiddies folks. It could give them nightmares. The visuals of Trinity are pretty graphic at times (i.e. in Krusnik mode - Abel once rips a vamps heart out and crushes it in his hand), but the storyline is wonderful.

The music is also very beautiful - even though it is not Yoko Kanno - who composed the soundtracks for Bebop, Wolf's Rain, and Ghost In The Shell: Stand Alone Complex - just to name a few.

[chicagojoe]

Cheza: Hope you don’t mind me posting this under Great Shows. Probably more appropriate to put it here rather than Greatest Break-up Songs. I watched Sessions 6-10of Cowboy Bebop. It was excellent-- Even better than disc one.

Session 6 Symphony for the Devil was very strange like you had said, especially the part where Spike has the dream or flashback of being on the autopsy table. I guess that’s the weird part that you were telling me to watch for. They were still broke in #6. Faye was stealing food from the dog. Very funny.

Session 7 Heavy Metal Queen was bazaar. Took me a while to figure out the gender s of VT in #7 and then again in #9 with Edward. VT creped me out a little bit. The dog eating Brussels sprouts was funny.

Session 8 Waltz for Venus was excellent. Good story. Sad though.

Session 9 Jamming with Edward was great. Edward is a great addition to the crew. I like that character a lot. Playful. You find out about Edward’s gender in the end when you hear Faye say, “You’re a girl!” Then you hear Edward laughing. Funny.

Session 10 Garymede Elegy was real good when I got to learn more about Jett. Did they say what happened to Jetts arm on this disc? I don’t know if I spaced out and missed it.

I’m thinking about ordering the next disc tomorrow. ???We’ll see.

[Cheza]

Hey chicagojoe! I agree this is a more appropriate place.

I'll just say this...it's not an autopsy table in Session Six. Look again. Like I said, by the end that little scenario will make sense...but not until the very end.

Faye stealing from Ein is typical Faye. I went to a pet store today and ironically saw my first live Welsh Corgi...he was $999...and he was being very mean, very unlike Ein, to the Dachshund that was sharing his cage. He was biting it on the ear! Bad doggie!

VT comes on very strong. I've heard rumors of a pre-Bebop series concept that was being kicked around featuring her and her bounty hunter husband, but I doubt it will ever come to fruition since it's been so many years since the end of Bebop - but who knows.

Waltz is very sad. It's a beautiful story though...just very sad.

I love when Faye realizes Ed is a girl...plus her ability to remote control large spaceships and bring them down. Faye did promise!

Plus (I think this is from that session...I may be wrong...) I love this exchange:

Spike Spiegel: Hey, Jet, did you know that there are three things that I hate?
Jet Black: Whatever...
Spike Spiegel: Kids... animals... and women with attitude.
Jet Black: Oh?
Spike Spiegel: So why do we have all three neatly gathered on our ship!

I'm glad you like Ed. I'm a big Ed fan. This is the English voice of Ed's website:
www.melissafahn.com/main.html

Nope, you didn't miss it. The explanation of what happened to Jet's arm is in the Session entitled "Black Dog Serenade"...I think it's number 16...so you'll get that right after Faye's flashback on Disc 4.

Disc Four - Sessions 11 - 14:

Session 11: Toys in the Attic...this one is a bit strange. Some rogue thing is roaming the Bebop. I think this is the only episode that takes place entirely aboard the ship.

Sessions 12 & 13: Jupiter Jazz...the first two-parter in the Bebop saga. Expect to see a face you haven't seen in a while.

Session 14: Bohemian Rhapsody...this one is a fave of mine ~ in no small part to Ed and her determination during her long chess game...keep an eye out for the three old guys.

I'm trying to figure out why there are only four episodes on that disc...it may be so that the ending works out together...the last two episodes are the other two-parter in the series.

I think I have a new Bebop afficianado on my hands Take your time

[chicagojoe]

Cheza. I took another look at the beginning of #6. After seeing the specimen jars for the second time around, I’m beginning to believe that they were trying to remove Spikes eyeball. Looked like there was a special spot for that specimen—the jar with the black circle. Am I getting warm?

Another thing that’s cool about Ed is that she always refers to herself in the third person. “Ed loves Piyokos.” Thanks for the Mellisa Fahn link. She has an impressive resume! It’s nice to see the face that goes with the voice.

Question. Was there more to Edward’s and Faye’s deal than making Ed a member of the crew? Just wondering because of what occurred at the end of #9 and the beginning of #10 when Ed rubs her cheek on Faye.

I’ve seen dogs and owned one myself that behaved like the Welsh Corgi that you saw at the pet store. I think they get jealous when the other dog gets the attention. I like all dogs except Pit Bulls.

[Cheza]

You're getting warm. I never noticed a specific jar...now I'm going to have to go look at it

The significance of that scene won't be revealed until the last episode. I know...don't let it drive you crazy. If you stop and think about it there was kind of a sly reference to it in Session Five as well...as he fell out of the window...as the frame zoomed in on one eye he was seeing a golden tinged version of the past - including Julia...

Yep. I knew she was in Wicked! - the Web site for that show was the first place I ever saw her picture - then I found Milli Baci and her new site. She and her hubby have been part of an interesting group called Vox Lumiere for a while now. They present music in front of old silent films...almost a mixed media musical of sorts www.voxlumiere.com/About.html. If you go to the bio section - Joel, the drummer, is her hubby.

Little did you know you were dealing with a voice of Betty Boop and Hello Kitty in Ed...she's also in Eureka Seven and Ghost In The Shell: Stand Alone Complex. If you want to see the face behind Faye in the English dub you can go here (what appears to be an abandoned site, but it has a bit of info as well as a pic) www.wendeelee.com/.

Personally, I don't think there was anything more to Faye's deal than Ed being allowed to board the Bebop and be a member of the crew. I see where you're going, but I think you shouldn't read too much into anything Ed does. I think Faye was shocked she was a girl because of her name and all the stuff they heard about "Radical Edward" from the people on the streets as they were trying to track Ed down. Ed annoys Faye...plain and simple...I love when she calls her "FAYE FAYE" and Faye often responds with a look that could kill. You will find out Ed's real name late in the series, FYI.

I adore the character of Ed. After the next disc you'll be hitting backstory material on Faye & Jet and get the hilarious Ed-centric session - Mushroom Samba. Ed and Ein go off in search of food (Because don't you know the Bebop crew doesn't have any!) and a 'shroom dealer named Domino...who is being hunted by the youngest Shaft brother and another bounty hunter who reminds me of someone along the lines of Cleopatra Jones...and I think the three old guys are in it too .

[chicagojoe]

Cheza. I may have goofed. At second glance, the black circle in the jar looks more like some blue jellylike substance. And a fish passes through or behind it. I’m not sure what to make of it. It still may be a spot for the eyeball.

The Vox Lumiere with Mellisa Fahn looks very original and interesting. And thanks for the Wendee Lee link. She has impressive credits as well. Here’s another link for Wendee Lee you might find interesting www.imdb.com/name/nm0283253/bio . The English dubbing is excellent with the help of those two ladies. A guy who wrote a Bebop review on Amazon said that he prefers to watch animated movies in Japanese, but for Bebop, he said the English dubbed version was better.

Yeah. Ed is a wonderful character. I’m looking forward to seeing Ed and Ein searching for food. Sounds great.

I ordered disc three the other day. I’m afraid that this one will take longer than the others to arrive, because this one is shipping from out of state.

[Cheza]

Ahhh...I haven't had a chance to look at it yet (workshops for work this week - *ugh* ~ so I've been on the road)...

You may not want a spoiler for that...but if you get frustrated and need the answer you can find it here amongst the quotes, but be warned you may see something else...www.imdb.com/title/tt0213338/quotes

The quotes are in a random order thankfully, however, I don't think one is correct...the Betamax one. I need to check that. I think it's "My ship works better when I kick it!" instead. You can also find pages for each member of the Bebop cast on IMDB.

If you look, you will see that many are involved in the dubs of the other series I'll mention in this thread.

Spike = Mugen in Samurai Champloo (also directed by Watanabe), Darcia (the villain) in Wolf's Rain, and Roger in Big O. He also does the voiceover for the Toonami blurbs during the day on Cartoon Network.

Faye = a woman who tries to poison Mugen in an episode of Champloo and Angel in Big O.

Ed = Tachikoma robots on Ghost In The Shell: Stand Alone Complex and a character on Eureka Seven.

Jet also voices a character on Champloo, as well as a character on Wolf's Rain (That I missed recognizing as him somehow!), but he also does work in front of the camera - including an episode of CSI: Miami and an episode of Cold Case.

You will also note many of them do voices for video games, which are denoted by a VG in parentheses. They made a Bebop video game for Playstation, but it seems plans to release it in the U.S. have been scrapped for now. Two Bebop games were released in Japan.

When you rent the movie, there are some special features where you can see them in action along with interviews with Spike, Faye, Ed, & Jet.

I'm going to come back into the thread and add info about more shows and maybe some images to the posts thus far. I found a good image of Ed and Alphonse from FMA the other night. Now whether I can find it again or not remains to be seen. I don't remember if I saved it ...silly me. Hopefully the Bebop will arrive soon. I purchased a DVD of a show called Black Lagoon yesterday along with the complete series of Witch Hunter Robin. I've heard good things about Black Lagoon, but no one is showing it here yet - I've heard it compared to Bebop...so I thought I'd give it a go and see what I think. Peace.

[chicagojoe]

Cheza. I'll just wait until the last episode to find out about that strange seen. It'll be that much better if I wait.

The special feature with the dubbing people on the movie disc sounds interesting. You want me to watch that one before Session 22. Right?

Let me know how you like Black Lagoon.

Peace B W/ U

[Cheza]

I agree it will be better if you wait...the payoff will be bigger.

Watch the movie AFTER Session 22. If you look back on disc one I think there's a special feature with Wendee Lee commentating on "Ballad of Fallen Angels".

I haven't watched Black Lagoon yet. I got Blood the Last Vampire in the mail from Netflix today...can't decide which one to watch first

Peace.

[chicagojoe]

I checked out the commentary with Wendee Lee. She's really proud of being part of the production. She said, "Faye is my girl." Now that I'm familiar with her voice, I keep thinking I'm hearing her voice in various television commercials.

I thought it was interesting where the guy that she was talking to during the commentary said that Ed's character was based on someone in the eastern production. I beleive he said it was Yoko Kanno. He said that she is very hyper just like Ed and listens to headphones while she's working and at the end of the day she takes the headphones off and just crashes. He said that if they were to go out that night, she would sit somewhere and fall asleep. Sounds very much like Ed.

I got disc 3 in the mail today. Stupid dealer didn't send the Remix though, but it shouldn't make much differance, except that I wanted the whole set to match.

Peace

[Cheza]

You probably do hear Wendee in some commercials. She also writes and directs some series now. I'm going to have to listen to the commentary again - I may have caught it then, but I missed the reference to Kanno! She's the music composer for Bebop, Wolf's Rain, GITS, etc...I could see that being her method. I heard a Toonami blurb this afternoon with Spike He used to do a 7-11 commercial a while back, but I don't think they air it anymore.

The biggest differences between the original release and the remix are 1. The Remix is configured for 5.1 surround sound - I don't think the original is. and 2. They lightened and brightened up some of the scenes. Just sort of polished it up. Sometimes this works for the series, but sometimes it works against some of the moody scenes.

Peace.

[Cheza]

"Wolf's Rain" is a series that people have mixed feelings about, but it is one of my all-time favorites. The story takes place in a post-apocalyptic world where many people live in poverty after the world was destroyed by a devastating winter (some call it a fimbulwinter - which is a Norse term describing a winter that is an immediate prelude to the end of the world).

Humans believe wolves no longer exist...they allegedly have been extinct for at least a couple of hundred years...but the humans are wrong. The humans believe The Book of the Moon is just a legend, since it tells of wolves and their search for Rakuen (aka Paradise). What the humans do not realize (with the notable exception of Quent) is that the wolves are living among them and not only that, but they've evolved to the point of hiding their true form by posing as humans.

Initially, the story follows the young wolves in the city. Kiba, an arctic wolf, is the leader of the pack, so to speak. He is the one obsessed with finding Rakuen, which can only be opened through the help of the lunar flower maiden, Cheza. He meets up with three other wolves, Tsume, Toboe, and Hige. At first, he and Tsume just want to fight, but before long they are all set on the goal of finding Paradise.

First, they've got to find Cheza. At the beginning of the series, she's in a laboratory - more specifically the lab of the human scientist Cher Degre'. She studies Cheza to no end - she wants to understand the purpose of such a fantastical being. She is fascinated by Cheza as well as The Book of the Moon. Cher's relentless studying of Cheza has led to the end of her marriage to Hubb Lebowski, a police detective. Hubb still loves Cher and often asks her (in a joking way) if they could get back together. He eventually becomes obsessed with the book as well, and even the wolves thanks to Quent.

Cheza was created by the noble Darcia clan. Lord Darcia the III is the main villain in this series. His family created Cheza from lunar flowers using alchemy after Darcia I was cursed. Eventually, of course, he comes to reclaim Cheza - because he wants to get to Paradise too. Other characters related to Darcia are his lover, Hamona, and her evil sister, Lady Jagura.

Lastly, there are the human Quent Yaiden and his dog, Blue. Quent is an ex-sheriff...so another law man enters the mix. Quent has a vendetta though...he believes wolves killed his family and destroyed his village. He is always on the go with his faithful companion, Blue, who can sense the wolves and helps him track them down. Quent's goal is to obliterate the wolves from the face of the earth. Eventually he meets up with Hubb and the two become friends...and Blue finds out something she never knew...she's part wolf. Upon that, Quent disowns her and she runs away with the pack in seach of Paradise.

Will the wolves find Rakuen? You'll just have to decide that for yourself. Cheza & Kiba are definitely one another's soulmates.

Many frown at this series because it's pretty deep emotionally, and some are left unsatisfied by its ending...however, I like shows that make you think. I'm all for mindless entertainment from time to time, but I love when I have to re-watch a show or contemplate what an ending means. This is that kind of show.

Kiba & Cheza (center) are seeking Rakuen. The white wolf to the left is Kiba's wolf form. Above it are the other members of the pack (from top) Hige, Tsume, and Toboe. At the upper right is Lord Darcia III. The masked woman below him is Lady Jagura. Across the bottom, from left, are the humans: Quent Yaiden, Hubb Lebowski, Cher Degre'...and the last gentleman, surprisingly, I do not recognize. I'll try to find out who he is and post that later. Blue is not in this image, unfortunately.

[chicagojoe]

Cheza. I really liked Disc 3.

Session 11: Toys in the Attic. As you said earlier, this one was strange. That thing creeping around the ship, biting everyone and making them sick was interesting. Ed was the only one that wasn’t bitten by the thing and, at least I think, she ended up eating it in the end. She says, “My putting!” Funny!

Session 12 & 13: Jupiter Jazz. Good episodes. Thought it was cool that we got to see Spikes old flame this time, although ever so briefly. Seems like neither Jet nor Spike could get a break in the romance department. Jet had to go searching for Faye who split with their money. She just ended up in hot water again. Vicious was back in this one and it looks like we’ll see him again. A funny part was when Spike was trying to talk to Ed, but she was spaced out on the computer, trying to track down Faye. ;DThey played a different song at the end of this one. I thought it was excellent.

Session 14: Bohemian Rhapsody. :DThis was definitely the funniest of the four Sessions. Ed gets electrocuted in the beginning and appears to be dead. Then she springs back into action. Really funny. And I liked the chess game between Ed and the chess player. “This guy is either an idiot or a guru. I like this fellow!” The three old guys pop out of nowhere to talk with the chess player. I liked this exchange:
Chess player: Let’s have lunch.
Three old guys: You just had lunch a few minutes ago.
Chess player: Did I like it?
Three old guys: Did you leave your brain somewhere? ;D

As I said earlier, a great disc.

Have you ever seen “A History of Violence”? It’s a movie based on a graphic novel. The story is very good. Another one you might enjoy is “The Departed” with Leonardo DeCaprio. I have both of these movies on DVD.

I like the graphics that you’ve been putting in. I’d like to check out “Wolf Rain” sometime.

[Cheza]

You're right - Ed ate it. That freaked me out the first time I saw that one, and yes, you will see Vicious again, but not for a bit. He's like that other shoe hanging over Spike's head...you never know when it is going "to drop" so to speak. I think Faye likes to be in trouble...not that she wants to be the "damsel in distress" mind you.

I believe the song you're talking about (saxophone with some chanting?) is called "Space Lion". Every now and then you'll get a different end theme. That happens again when you get to the end of the series.

Those three old dudes still crack me up It's kind of scary to think that they are ahead of Chessmaster Hex memory wise...although he still plays a mean chess game. Hey, I just googled the three old men because I knew they have names, but I never remember them...I (like many) just refer to them as the three old men...but according to Wikipedia they are named Antonio, Carlos, and Jobim for Antonio Carlos Jobim (aka Tom Jobim) a Brazilian composer, arranger, pianist who was an integral part in the creation of the Bossa Nova. Cool! Another music reference in the Bebop universe.

I need to find a video someone made set to "The Pirates Who Don't Do Anything" to share with you. There's actually a line in it that says somit like "and I've never owned a parrot"...and they cut in a clip of Hex's parrot tilting his head. It cracks me up. "Bohemian" is definitely one of my favorite sessions.

I think I may have seen "A History of Violence"...that's familiar, but I'm not sure. I watched "Sin City" the other night. A couple of days ago I watched the anime flim "Blood: The Last Vampire" - which is a prequel to one of the series ("Blood Plus") that I will discuss in this thread. My review/comments on "Blood: The Last Vampire" are in the "What was the last movie you rented" thread.

I'm glad you're enjoying the graphics. I love "Wolf's Rain"...it has the same direction team and same music team. Watanabe + Kanno makes me happy

I think the next series I'll discuss here will be the one that hooked me first..."Big O"...which also includes voice work by the English voices of Spike & Faye...as Roger Smith and Angel, respectively.

Oh and the next episode you'll hit will be Faye's flashback, "My Funny Valentine" - Session 15. See if you can catch what someone else caught long before me...when Faye is on the side of the road in a scene a ship that resembles one flown by a fellow Bebop member flies by...albeit this is a few years before the two met, but it makes one wonder what could have happened if he had stopped to help her then. The next disc will also reveal what happened to Jet's arm and take you on Ed and Ein's adventure pursuing Domino in "Mushroom Samba".

[Cheza]

"Big O" was the first anime that I was hooked on (with the exception of Speed Racer, which I think could technically be called an anime). The story has shades of Batman...one of its taglines on IMDB is even: "One part Batman, one part robot, all hero."

A rich negotiator (how he got his money is never explained) Roger Smith, lives with his butler, Norman Burg, in a huge building in Paradigm City. This city is unique because of an incident that occurred in the past - it caused everyone to lose his/her memory - Roger calls it a "city of amnesia". Therefore, any memories that still exist in any form are extremely valuable.

In the beginning, Roger is asked to rescue a man's kidnapped daughter, but when he and the man arrive on the scene they find the android R. Dorothy Waynewright instead of a human girl. Early in the series, R. Dorothy's father (she was built by a scientist based on his limited memories of his real daughter who died) is killed and she goes to live with Roger & Norman.

Roger and R. Dorothy love to spar verbally even though she is his sidekick and has to save his behind on occassion. R. Dorothy loves to play the piano and often speaks about how she "feels", which strikes Roger as very odd. He is not happy when she wakes him up by playing the piano loudly because she feels he has laid in bed too long.

Early on in the series we learn that Roger was once a member of the Military Police when Major Dan Dastun comes to visit. Dastun even gets an episode that deals mainly with him, and it's one of the best. It is entitled "Winter Night Phantom".

Roger meets a beautiful, young blonde woman who presents herself under different names throughout the series ~ she finally tells him he can call her Angel. The reason for the various names? She's out to find the memories...kind of a Catwoman if you will - a little shady, but good deep down.

You should be forewarned that this is a "mecha" anime...which means giant robots. Roger pilots "Big O" a megadeus. Norman mysteriously knows how to repair it. Neither really knows why they have those skills. "Cast in the name of God, ye not guilty" is a phrase that appears on "Big O"'s screen. There are other megas in the series - namely, Dorothy 1, Big Duo, and Big Fau.

Throw in Michael Seebach (aka Schwarzwald) the mad former journalist, villains Jason Beck (he may be the character called Beck Gold in Season 2), the members of the Revolution, and Alan Gabriel, mastermind Alex Rosewater, and his father, Gordon, who holds the key to the event that happened 40 years ago...and you've got an interesting show. Religious references are also made throughout the series.

This is not everyone's cup of tea. It was a flop in Japan, but Adult Swim/Cartoon Network worked to get a second season made - albeit the ending confused us even more. Some say no one can tell you what it means. I have my own theory. I like when I have to theorize. I'm weird like that...what can I say???

Clockwise from top - Big O, R. Dorothy Waynewright, Roger Smith, and Norman Burg

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Angel, Roger, and R. Dorothy

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